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Thread: Tea Party

  1. #1
    Spiteful Crow Boltgun's Avatar
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    Tea Party

    Today all over the nation people were holding "tea partys" about the spending of the nations money and it therefore raises our taxes and we have had no say in the matter. Our nation is so far in debt it will take generations to fix and it is apparently to help fix our economy when it is actually hurting us beyond repair. All the economists that have been watching this before it happened all did not want this to happen. All of them said to not do it was a bad thing whether they were democract or republican.

    The "tea partys" were comprised of democrats and republicans protesting the spendingof our nations money. The only news station that covered this was fox news. No other news station, CNN, MSNBC, ABC, NBC, HLN (head line news). there was one station that mentioned it, but it was a one liner and then it was done with. They think that by ignoring it it will go away. The one they showed on fox news was held at the Alamo in Texas and hosted by Glenn Beck. They used the Alamo because the people that stood there defending it were doing the same thing people were all over the nation with the tea partys. They were protesting something that they didn't like. They said that they weren't blaming obama for all the spending he's been doing but the spending him, G.W.Bush, and Clinton for all the spending since then. Which im willing to see that point but anybody who follows this knows that Obama has thrown us into the toilet with his spending and his stimulus bill.

    Im not saying its one party or person thats the problem. Its the government and all the spending they're doing without us having any say in the matter. The government has forgotten that they cant just do whatever they want and that we run the goernment. Does the all time saying of ,"...a government for the people, by the people..." meen anything to them anymore?

    The point is, that the government is spending money out the ass and think they can without our opinion and the tea partys our way of saying we dont like what your doing and they think that they can just ignore us. Im a republican and have realized that im flexible on most issues. Where does the RPGC community stand on this? I am most looking foreward to see if Sin has anything to say and where he stands.

    "A warriors true strength lies not in the body, but in the spirit..."-Anonnymous
    "Break the bones and the body will heal. Break the spirit, and the body will die..."-Anonnymous

  2. #2
    I Don't Bless Them
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    You know what would give us a lot of money, and make the tax burden on most people better? If we taxed churches, synagogues, and other places of worship.

  3. #3
    Spiteful Crow Boltgun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genericangstyposter View Post
    You know what would give us a lot of money, and make the tax burden on most people better? If we taxed churches, synagogues, and other places of worship.
    If your talking about the stimulus bill so much stuff was snuck in there because they gave them only a little bit of time to read the whole bill that it counter acts gaining money. Its going to put alot of small buisness's out of buisness. Plus it would give us money if taxed churches and things like that but we can't on account of seperation of church and state.

    "A warriors true strength lies not in the body, but in the spirit..."-Anonnymous
    "Break the bones and the body will heal. Break the spirit, and the body will die..."-Anonnymous

  4. #4
    The Greatest Defender of Freedom and Liberty on These Boards The 984's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genericangstyposter View Post
    You know what would give us a lot of money, and make the tax burden on most people better? If we taxed churches, synagogues, and other places of worship.
    The power to tax involves the power to destroy.
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  5. #5
    I Don't Bless Them
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    I'm not talking about the stimulus bill, I'm talking about taxing places of worship. And if you really want to "seperate church and state," then tax it like any other non-profit. By showing bias towards religious institutions, I hardly see that as a sign of seperation.

    984: Please elaborate.

  6. #6
    マホの探偵 Cless Alvein's Avatar
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    The major point of these protests is to complain about taxation, but taxes haven't really been higher or lower compared to past years. It's just a kind of fad to complain about it now because it has higher impact during the recession.
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  7. #7
    Intellectual Love God
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boltgun View Post
    The only news station that covered this was fox news.
    That is unsurprising, considering the fact that the "tea parties" are a fake astroturf campaign created by a right-wing think tank called FreedomWorks, which has been previously busted for fake grass-roots campaigns. The entire movement "suddenly" materialized out of thin air, with a whole slew of well-designed websites (owned by previously unheard-of nonprofit organizations) and well-organized PR, just a couple of hours after Rick Santelli attacked Obama's bailout plan on CNBC. The physical protests in February were small and intended purely as TV fodder; they may be more successful, though, if the organization is successful at luring a wider sample of people and channeling their dissatisfaction for its own purposes.

    I did not vote for Obama, and I am very skeptical about the bailout. But FreedomWorks had nothing to say when Obama proposed to bail out the fraudulent banks. They got angry only when Obama proposed to give money to homeowners about to undergo foreclosure. The reason, of course, is because they want to draw people's anger away from the banks in the wake of the AIG bonus scandal, and redirect that anger at the government. Their opinion is of no value, and conveniently avoids any discussion of the real problems at the heart of the crisis.
    While this America settles in the mould of its vulgarity, heavily thickening
    to empire,
    And protest, only a bubble in the molten mass, pops and sighs out, and the
    mass hardens,
    I sadly smiling remember that the flower fades to make fruit, the fruit rots
    to make earth.
    Out of the mother; and through the spring exultances, ripeness and decadence;
    and home to the mother.

    You making haste, haste on decay: not blameworthy; life is good, be it
    stubbornly long or suddenly
    A mortal splendor: meteors are not needed less than mountains:
    shine, perishing republic.
    But for my children, I would have them keep their distance from the
    thickening center; corruption
    Never has been compulsory, when the cities lie at the monster's feet there
    are left the mountains.

    And boys, be in nothing so moderate as in love of man, a clever servant,
    insufferable master.
    There is the trap that catches noblest spirits, that caught -- they say --
    God, when he walked on earth.


    - Robinson Jeffers, "Shine, Perishing Republic"

  8. #8
    Spiteful Crow Boltgun's Avatar
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    Yes they seperate most likely out of fear of all the prejudice and negativety that would evolve out of them saying they must practice one religion.

    "A warriors true strength lies not in the body, but in the spirit..."-Anonnymous
    "Break the bones and the body will heal. Break the spirit, and the body will die..."-Anonnymous

  9. #9
    The Greatest Defender of Freedom and Liberty on These Boards The 984's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genericangstyposter View Post
    984: Please elaborate.
    It's a quote from McCulloch v. Maryland. McCulloch was technically about state governments taxing federal buildings (federal bank, I think).

    Anyway, separation of church and state is only one of... I want to say four theories on how to interpret the Establishment and Free Exercise Clauses. Without even getting into establishment issues, it could be argued that taxation can lead to the "prohibit[ion of] the free exercise thereof." Namely, reduction in church funds which would to a reduction in church functions etc.

    Besides, you'd be hard pressed to argue that churches are "for profit." They differ IMMENSELY from for profit companies such as GM or Ma and Pa's General Store. Churches are essentially no different from a political party except in the area of society they try to get you to vote for, and I believe parties are tax exempt.
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  10. #10
    I Don't Bless Them
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    When I worked for AT&T, we had all sorts of churches setting up satellite television (internet I can understand, but not TV). If they were taxed, then perhaps they would spend the funds they receive a little more wisely. Furthermore, most churches aren't run like businesses. You're absolutely correct. But then you have groups like Scientology and the televangelists' churches from the 80s and early 90s, and they definitely are/were more financially than spiritually motivated. It's either tax all religious organizations, or tax none of them. We can't pick and choose which ones we want to tax. And so I think it's most fair to tax all of them.
    Last edited by Genericangstyposter; 04-15-2009 at 11:01 PM.

  11. #11
    Spiteful Crow Boltgun's Avatar
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    I agree. Tax all the churches so that we can at least get some money back from everything they do.

    "A warriors true strength lies not in the body, but in the spirit..."-Anonnymous
    "Break the bones and the body will heal. Break the spirit, and the body will die..."-Anonnymous

  12. #12
    i'll see you all soon enough Rinn's Avatar
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  13. #13
    My avatar keeps changing and I don't know why.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rinn View Post
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    Svava, daughter of Eylimi, sister of Hjordis Dragon Tear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genericangstyposter View Post
    You know what would give us a lot of money, and make the tax burden on most people better? If we taxed churches, synagogues, and other places of worship.

    ....you don't pay church taxes? o_o

  15. #15
    I Don't Bless Them
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    No, DT. In the United States, all religions, including Scientology and other clearcut cults, do not pay taxes.

  16. #16
    Svava, daughter of Eylimi, sister of Hjordis Dragon Tear's Avatar
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    ...no I mean like. *you* do pay a fee when officially in church, no? :o

  17. #17
    I Don't Bless Them
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    You mean like a tithe? I don't know. I've never been officially part of a church. Not once in my life. I know that Scientology charges a whole hell of a lot of money just to be a MEMBER of their "Church," and then more money at each tier.

  18. #18
    The Greatest Defender of Freedom and Liberty on These Boards The 984's Avatar
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    Establishment Clause pretty much prohibits the government from creating a church-support tax. That would be clear and direct support to a church for a reason that's not a compelling state interest.
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  19. #19
    Svava, daughter of Eylimi, sister of Hjordis Dragon Tear's Avatar
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    .....why am I still living here. o-o
    The only reason I'm still officially in church is because I'd have to pay to get back out. Thank you, dear family :o

  20. #20
    Demonic Petunia Neiru_3's Avatar
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    If taxes are not high now, they will be. About the media, it's so biased it's disgusting. What I don't like is that these politicians were voted in but they do whatever they wish. They are suppose to work for us not themselves. Did the majority of americans want the stimulus bill? Probably not.

  21. #21
    Mr. Molecule Khalbrae's Avatar
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    What's even more gross is that the party not in power is always like "ewww. they stole our liberties! we'll get them back!" then when elected, they protect the previous party's worst offenders from prosecution and extend the constitutionally illegal laws passed by the previous administration, only occasionally differing in stances on taxes and on frivolous things like sexuality, religion, ethnicity and made up (not even real) morals.

  22. #22
    The Greatest Defender of Freedom and Liberty on These Boards The 984's Avatar
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    Made up morals? Care to educate us on what "made up morals" are?

    As for what Congress is supposed to represent, there's quite a bit of dispute on that issue. Should congressmen be completely subject to the whims of their constituents, voting entirely in line with what a majority of that district wants? That would essentially turn politicians into robots subject entirely to the polls. Really, there would be no reason to have an actual person serve in the position.

    Should, instead, congressmen be elected Philosopher-Kings? Should they represent instead entirely what they think is best and let the chips fall where they may? Maybe they should represent the color of their district and vote in line with the national (or state) party.

    As a middle ground, should congressmen instead try to represent their constituents' interests but recognize that, in some cases, what the constituency wants may not be best? Ideally, congressmen should be dedicated to their jobs, and if they serve long enough on the right committee, be well educated about certain matters. Many times, they may have greater understanding of the issue than their constituency at-large and know to vote a different way.

    There is no one unilaterally agreed upon method of representation. Blindly following what the constituency wants leads to Tyranny of the Majority. See The PATRIOT Act or the Iraq War which was widely popular when first started. If they are philosopher-kings, beholden to no one except come election time, there is likely to be more turmoil in the system. It may honestly be the best method of representation. If the middle ground, we get the rampant doubletalk.
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  23. #23
    Thin Man RoguePaladinTrian's Avatar
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    Bleh, I'm just echoing things people got around to writing way before me, but the best way to understand the lack of integrity behind the tea parties and the people who attend them is to ask where they were for the eight years before January.
    A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."
    -Robert Heinlein, Time Enough for Love

  24. #24
    The Greatest Defender of Freedom and Liberty on These Boards The 984's Avatar
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    I seem to recall minor protests before Obama. However, I don't remember if they were organized as tea parties, and they definitely weren't as big as the ones yesterday were.
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  25. #25
    Mr. Molecule Khalbrae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The 984 View Post
    Made up morals? Care to educate us on what "made up morals" are?
    Technically all morals are made up, but I meant more to say contradictory morals, which every politician seems to practice.

  26. #26
    The Greatest Defender of Freedom and Liberty on These Boards The 984's Avatar
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    Mind giving us some examples? What made up morals do Democrats take stances on that differ from Republican made up morals?
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  27. #27
    I Don't Bless Them
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    "All morals are made up?" I see, so you don't believe in objective morality. So, if I skewed a live baby and ate it raw, you'd have no objections?

  28. #28
    Mr. Molecule Khalbrae's Avatar
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    Republicans in power or near the point of obtaining it tend to say they value all life (especially unborn children from all corners of the globe), but take a special pride in indescriminantly bombing, starving, torturing or otherwise killing people (pregnant or not). Democrats are vocal against killing and torturing then near power, but quietly introduce laws that allow them to secretly (and Republicans to openly) abuse people (such as Rendition, which is also abused by both parties, some more openly then others).

    Democrats tend to pretend that they honour and respect freedom of speech, unless it isn't directed kindly at them (same as Republicans, but Democrats try harder to look like the free speech party). People who display signs of being in a Militia, supporting the Libertarians or mention conspiratorial movies like Zeitgeist are now people of interest for terrorist activities (can be pulled over and questioned without any other reasoning). (1) (Zeitgeist is mentioned in the PDF document listed as the source, I seem to recall a couple threads on this board about it.) Another report of targeting by the ACLU (2) mentions the "latest example of inappropriate police intelligence operations targeting political, religious and social activists for investigation".

    Some parties claim to protect religious freedoms, others claim to care about minority rights. Really day by day it looks like more and more hogwash.

    I live in Canada by the way. I can safely say that other than Taxes our political parties here are barely different also.




    And yes, I try to show references, and often those references have references worth reading ;)


    Please not that I'm not a rabble-rouser. I really don't care who's in control anymore. I'm not an idealistic highschooler.
    Last edited by Khalbrae; 04-16-2009 at 07:17 PM.

  29. #29
    マホの探偵 Cless Alvein's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genericangstyposter View Post
    "All morals are made up?" I see, so you don't believe in objective morality. So, if I skewed a live baby and ate it raw, you'd have no objections?
    also to reinforce this point, you become the reincarnation of hitler and also hate black people as well as single pregnant jewish mothers if you think morality is subjective

    just fyi
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    Ooh~ Maho!
    Rollcake Sunday, sandwich Monday, depends on the feeling
    Expectations are half, odds are even, tomorrow's just begun
    Cats (Olé!) and silver grass (Olé!)
    Are beckoning
    Nothing to do (Olé!?), it's so boring (Olé!?)
    Good-bye for today!
    Going 'round and 'round (Aye aye yah!)
    I am the sun (Aye aye yah!)
    Going 'round and 'round (Aye aye yah!)
    Like the green train (Service line!)
    Going 'round and 'round (Aye aye yah!)
    Going in circles
    The orbit of stars and planets is a roulette theatre
    Olé?

  30. #30
    I Don't Bless Them
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    Hey, that was a perfectly viable reductio ad absurdum. Don't wave your yellow flag at me, ref!

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