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Thread: Ability Data

  1. #31
    Master Belch Videospirit's Avatar
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    Is it possible that one of the combo value data bits is the comboes into value, and the other is the comboes from value? Moves that combo into themselves will not be able to test this. The ideal setup for testing would be using two moves that can combo into each other from either direction, although you could probably get the data to confirm this with moves that only combo in one direction regardless.
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  2. #32
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    Thats exactly what we think. I can't speak for the others, but I'm busy with the real world right now. I'm pretty sure Boundshot combos with itself both ways... ask Zaraktheus.

  3. #33
    Master Belch Videospirit's Avatar
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    Bound shot does combo with itself both ways, the problem is you need two different moves to test which value is the combos to and which is combos from, that way you don't tweak both moves when you change one of the combo values. For example, modifying either of boundshot's combo variables makes it impossible to combo boundshots together, however if you were using two different moves that combo in a similar manner to boundshot, they would still allow level 2 combos after the value is changed, and you would be able to see which moves execute first to know whether the value you changed disabled comboing to, or comboing from.

    If using two moves that only combo one way, you would not get 100% positive proof that the two values are combos to and combos from values, since it's possible the value that doesn't disable the combo is just another set of information for combos. You would be able to test and see if the combo works with one value changed though, and if the assumption that one is comboes to and one is combos from is correct, we would be able to assume that the unchanged value controls the combos to or combos from value depending on whether the move modified was the one that starts the combo or the one that ends it.

    That's really long and somewhat repetitive terminology wise, so I'll understand if I confused someone.

    In other news, I reckon having byte 08(Or what is called 08 in the ability data.txt, Zaraktheus was calling it 09 in his analysis though, but I can't find what he was using for 00 so that's why it's different) set to 10 causes damage to double or perhaps *1.8 like two gun, explaining why Doubleslash, Cross slash(Also uses a different damage formula though), Heaven/Hell, TripleThrust, and LifeSprinkler, as well as a few other sword techniques do considerably more damage than their attack power would indicate. Non 10 values are for aoe purposes. This would make the strongest sword moves in terms of raw attack power Life sprinkler > Tres Flores > Shadow Counter > Headwind > Moonlight Cut/Triple Thrust. Triple Thrust and Moonlight Cut have the same damage formula, and this strength order was based on 1.8 times damage for the 10 value, So you should test which is actually stronger to get a better idea how much extra damage the (double hit) effect adds. Also, Shadow counter uses a different damage formula than the other moves, so it's probably not actually this high on the list.

    DSC's damage is nowhere near what it's attack power would indicate, this is probably because of byte 0c though, since DSC is the only move with a value of 40 there, it might be fun to try changing other moves 0c to 40 to see if they do humongous amounts of damage. 0C(0D for Zaraktheus) is definitely the damage formula.
    Last edited by Videospirit; 04-24-2009 at 01:12 AM.
    The Orakian Hideout Webcomic

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    Videospirit's origin story, please read and review

    Making a roleplay on the agora is kind of like walking into a bar looking for a challenging fight. "Gimme your worst, I'll take you all on!"

  4. #34
    Cute Li'l UFO
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    To clear up confusion on this point: since my last posts on this site, the data block for each ability has been shifted one byte back, because I determined that what was previously called byte 00 was actually byte 11 of the previous ability (thanks to Vimes raising the possibilty). That discussion was in the "Ted, etc." thread on the GameFAQs board and never made it here. Let's see...that was on 4/8/2009, so any posts from before then will have the old byte assignments. Just subtract one from any byte mentioned prior to that date to get what we call that byte now.

    Although I think everyone already figured this out, BoundShot does combo with itself both ways, as do all abilities that I refer to as "self-comboers". In point of fact, it is logically impossible for an ability that combos with itself to do so in only one direction--in order to send to itself successfully, it must also be able to receive from itself.

    I had been holding off on posting my investigation of the Combo Data because I have yet to determine how it works, but I suppose it may be useful to post it as-is, if only to clarify some of the ways in which it does not work.

    This investigation assumes that bytes 0D and 0F are the only Combo Data bytes, that all the data they contain is relevent to Combo Data (and nothing exterraneous), and that they are bit toggles, with each bit representing one combo characteristic. I have since come to suspect that any or all of these assumptions may be incorrect.

    Here are the byte 0D and 0F values of the abilities on which I focused:

    Some abilities that don't combo, and therefore hopefully lack complete Combo Data:
    0D-0F-Ability
    1F-00-Slash
    1F-00-Punch
    1F-00-Shot
    1F-00-QuickDraw
    1F-00-TwoGun
    1F-00-MysticalChange
    1F-00-AlkaiserChange
    7F-00-Photosynthesis
    7F-00-Deathsynthesis
    1F-00-Gate
    1F-00-DodgeDrain
    1F-00-ShootingMastery
    1F-00-MysticSword
    1F-00-PoisonDamage
    1F-00-Defense

    Some abilities that self-combo:
    0D-0F-Ability
    1F-E0-HardSlash
    1F-E0-SwallowSwing
    1F-F0-ThunderThrust
    1F-60-ShadowCounter
    1F-E0-CrossShot
    1F-E0-BoundShot
    1F-E0-Sliding
    1F-E0-Fist
    1F-70-Suplex
    1F-70-GiantSwing
    1F-E0-TriangleKick
    1F-E0-Beak
    7F-70-Tackle
    91-E0-StoneGas
    BB-70-MightyCyclone
    0B-28-ProtonRocket
    1F-E0-PluralSlash
    1F-F4-DarkSphere
    1F-60-EnergyChain

    The following chart illustrates which bits are set for each of the values found in the above listing:

    bits__01_02_04_08_10_20_40_80
    0B=__01_02____08____________
    1F=__01_02_04_08_10_________
    7F=__01_02_04_08_10_20_40___
    91=__01__________10_______80
    BB=__01_02____08_10_20____80

    28=___________08____20______
    60=_________________20_40___
    70=______________10_20_40___
    E0=_________________20_40_80
    F0=______________10_20_40_80
    F4=________04____10_20_40_80

    In the following theories, I will refer to any specific value in a specific byte with the following format: "byte:value". As an example, I would list HardSlash's byte 0D value of 1F as 0D:1F. It's much more concise this way. I will refer to specific bits within a byte in the same way.

    Theory 1: Byte 0D Sends, byte 0F Receives. Bits correspond directly and in the most obvious manner, so 0D:01 links to 0F:01, 0D:02 links to 0F:02, etc.
    Disproven by: look no further than HardSlash--values 1F and E0 have exactly the opposite bits set, but share none.
    Because we are considering self-comboers, it doesn't matter which byte Sends and which Receives, so this also disproves byte 0D Receives, byte 0F Sends.

    Next, I examine a few patterns I would consider much less likely for their inscrutability.

    Theory 2: Byte 0D Sends, byte 0F Receives. Bits correspond such that 0D:01 links to 0F:10, 0D:02 links to 0F:20, etc.
    Disproven by: StoneGas.
    Again, the reverse is also disproven.

    Theory 3: Byte 0D Sends, byte 0F Receives. Bits correspond such that 0D:01 links to 0F:80, 0D:02 links to 0F:40, etc.
    Disproven by: ProtonRocket.
    Again, the reverse is also disproven.

    This could go on forever, with the patterns becoming ever more unlikely. All I can say is that it seems highly unlikely that the relationship is as simple as "one byte Sends, the other Receives." Time to try a different idea. Rather than Send and Receive, perhaps we should be looking for Send and Block. In order to form a combo, any bits Sent must NOT match any of the bits Blocked. This could explain HardSlash's values having exactly the opposite bits set.

    Theory 4: Byte 0D Sends, byte 0F Blocks. Bits correspond directly and in the most obvious manner, so 0D:01 is blocked by 0F:01, 0D:02 is blocked by 0F:02, etc.
    Disproven by: ThunderThrust. Bit 10 is set in both bytes.
    Again, the reverse is also disproven.

    So, what possibilities remain? It could still be Send/Receive or Send/Block from one byte to another, but with an inexplicable pattern. Or Send/Receive or Send/Block for each characteristic could be contained within a single byte (e.g. 0D:01 Sends a characteristic which 0D:10 Receives), though in this case, who knows what the pattern of relationship between bits would be? Or maybe they're not bit toggles at all, but instead references to a table somewhere else that lists what characteristics are Sent and Received (or Blocked!), though in this case, it seems inexplicable that there would be so few values used, but such a large numerical difference between them. And of course, there could be more bytes involved in Combo Data than just 0D and 0F, or 0D and/or 0F could also contain data unrelated to Combos, which could be muddying the waters. In short, it could be just about anything, save that the pattern isn't obvious (at least not to me).

    Videospirit: interesting find regarding 08:10. Have you been able to test at all whether setting/unsetting bit 08:10 causes abilities to change their AoE or how much damage they do? It would be interesting to know whether 08:10 is a toggle unrelated to AoE (meaning it could be set in order to ~double damage for any AoE), or whether the developers just inexplicably put a single reference value in the AoE byte that affects a single target, but ~doubles damage.
    Last edited by Zaraktheus; 04-24-2009 at 12:02 PM.

  5. #35
    Cute Li'l UFO
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    The XXXX, YYYY, and ZZZZ values given for all the abilities still need to be shifted +1 (e.g. 2B7AB -> 2B7AC) to reflect the data-block shift. Noticed it when I RAM-searched TrickShot's byte 06 value and it was one off from where I expected it. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

  6. #36
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    Will do.

    EDIT

    Er... Can't do.

    EW can generate them with Excel, and anyone can insert the new Base Addresses with Microsoft Word. If you need the specifics, just ask me.

    And EW, could you provide a visual aid for generating Base Addressed via Excel?
    Last edited by Sir_Vimes; 06-04-2009 at 07:44 PM.

  7. #37
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    Figured out what's wrong, don't have any of the HEX/DEC/OCT/BIN2whatever functions.

    So who exactly should I shake my fist at in impotent fury? Microsoft?

  8. #38
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    Just tried out openoffice, it has hex2dec. I'll install it later and finish up (finally).

  9. #39
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