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Thread: Ability Data

  1. #1
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    Ability Data

    http://grand-flamingo.tripod.com/ability_data.txt

    use this thread to discuss ability data.

    EDIT
    updated ability data link
    Last edited by Sir_Vimes; 05-04-2009 at 05:20 PM.

  2. #2
    Once a Great Tit, Always a Great Tit Skankin' Garbage's Avatar
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    Cool, I'm glad to know you went through with this idea! Keep up the good work!


    All my diggaz say WHAT!?

    Spoiler: Magic (still) ROCKS!

    http://jamieobeso.blogspot.com/ (updated 7/26/08)

  3. #3
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    only two immediate goals for ability data:
    -modify an ability or two to test what the various attack types are (like sonic wave, gaze, water wave, and so on). basically, just finish the list.
    -find which byte determines which status ailments are added to the ability. i know we've probably already found what tells the game to add ailments (in general), i want the one that say, "add a specific ailment, such as blindness".

    of course you can do whatever you freaking want - no help will be turned away.

  4. #4
    Cute Li'l UFO Eroneous's Avatar
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    Byte 03 is the ability's attack power. :)

    Also, I'm wondering if byte 04 isn't something regarding which status is applied:

    MysteryTap: 10
    FlashFire: 01
    Ink: 01
    Selection: FF

    Seems logical, I don't think Ink or FlashFire have any additional effects beyond Blindness, MysteryTap inflicts Mess (and each use increases the level, beginning with Blue, then Yellow, then Red presumably, assuming the character doesn't 'shake off' the ailment by then--but I tried this on a fairly buff party who never got past Yellow Mess before automatically negating the ailment) and Selection, AFAIK, inflicts EVERY status ailment. Slash and several others have FF, but these also do not have '07' in the byte that says 'if 07, do status ailments'. The only things is that this doesn't immediately line up with anything we've seen for items and in-battle status, but that's no reason to immediately discount this theory, methinks.

    EDIT: There's some abilities that are throwing this pattern off, but I think if we take into account what byte 0D is doing as well it may all make sense. My knee's acting up so I've taken something for that...meaning I'll be out within the hour (at most) so I'll try to play with this more tomorrow. Lots of homework though, so..we'll see.

    EDIT2: I changed Slash's FF at byte 04 to 00, and it now inflicts Stun with a basic sword attack. Neato! ^_^
    Last edited by Eroneous; 02-24-2009 at 09:38 PM. Reason: Added byte 04 speculation, then FINISHED byte 04 speculation, then FURTHER FINISHED byte 04 speculation. >_<

  5. #5
    Cute Li'l UFO Eroneous's Avatar
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    Byte 0B:

    bit 0 (01): Self-targeting counters (Godless, CrossDeflect)

    bit 1 (02): Must have used the abilities weapon type that round (Sword for Deflect, Punch for Swayback, Gun for TwoGun, etc.)
    Barriers also have this bit set, and Gate.

    bit 2 (04): Requires 2 swords (CrossDeflect, 2GaleSlash)

    bit 3 (08): Only damaging Gun techniques have this set.

    bit 4 (10): Inherent abilities (cannot be directly chosen--Slash, Punch, Beat); ALL Dodges have this set, as well.

    bit 5 (20): ?? (IronclogShot (E0), DodgeNet, DodgeThunder, DodgeTremor, DodgeRock, DodgeGaze, DodgeDeathGrip, Kyon'sSmile, Kyon'sSmile, Kyon'sSmile (F0), Bit, V-MAX, Magnify (60))

    bit 6 (40): ?? (Ironclog Shot (E0), All Dodges but Smash, Tail and Tackle (D0/F0), Bit, V-MAX, Magnify (60), AntiStone, StunNeedle, Salmonella (D0), FlashBomb, MagicStone (C0), FinalStrike (40))

    bit 7 (80): ?? (Ironclog Shot, All Dodges but Tail and Tackle, Bit, V-MAX, Magnify, AntiStone, StunNeedle, Salmonella, FlashBomb, MagicStone (the one near the bottom of the list), MagicStone (the one nearer the top of the list), Shoot-All)

    *Posted this in the Item thread at first, wth >_<*

    EDIT: (to avoid triple-post blitz madness)
    I was playing with Lifewave's cost.

    It did nothing.

    No matter what I changed it to, the cost remained the same. I've tried playing with several other bytes, thus far to no avail. Oddball, indeed...
    Last edited by Eroneous; 02-24-2009 at 10:13 PM.

  6. #6
    Once a Great Tit, Always a Great Tit Skankin' Garbage's Avatar
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    Lol, you should set LifeSprinkler to a counter attack. That would be hysterical, like someone tries to attack Gen and he's all "Ohhh you shouldn't have done that" lmao!


    All my diggaz say WHAT!?

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  7. #7
    Cute Li'l UFO Eroneous's Avatar
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    Well I tried changing byte 0B to 02, but I think it's handled in one of these ways:

    a) Another byte says, "If byte08 = 02 and the incoming attack type is matched to this byte, determine if the counter is performed."

    b) There's a byte that determines the odds of the countermove being used.

    c) Some combination of those 2.

    d) ???

    e) Profit?! Wait..

  8. #8
    Cute Li'l UFO Eroneous's Avatar
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    Points of Attack power per WP used for Sword skills. (No Alkaiser skills yet.)
    All decimals are rounded down to the tenth. (So 1.25 becomes 1.2.)

    First number is without mastery, second is with.
    'F' indicates free. (0 WP)

    A few things:
    Bytes 04/05: I speculate these have to do with status inflicted.
    Byte 09: Some abilities that seem to be more powerful than byte 03 would suggest have this at 10. (DoubleSlash, for example.) WheelSlash actually has 92 there.
    Byte 0E: Could this have something to do with what stats affect damage? I have no idea, and I'm actually inclined to believe not, but still...this byte puzzles me.

    Basic:
    F/F Slash: 4 Atk, 0 WP, Slashing
    F/F TwinSword: 4 Atk, 0 WP, Slashing
    F/F Katana: 4 Atk, 0 WP, Slashing
    1.5/2 Asura: 6 Atk, 4 WP, Slashing (Byte 04 = 29)

    Counters:
    <5/6 Godless: 24 Atk, 5 WP, All but Status
    =4/5.3 AsuraRevenge: 16 Atk, 4 WP, Force/Slashing (Byte 04 = 29)
    =2/2.6 Kasumi: 8 Atk, 4 WP, All but Status (byte 05 = 02)

    F/F StunSlash: 2 Atk, 0 WP, Slashing, Stuns (byte 04 = 00)

    3/F DoubleSlash: 3 Atk, 1 WP, Slashing (byte 09--alters damage? 10)

    2/4 HardSlash: 4 Atk, 2 WP, Blunt/Slashing
    2/4 CrossSlash: 4 Atk, 2 WP, Slashing (byte 09 = 10)

    2.5/5.0 Thrust: 5 Atk, 2 WP, Piercing/Slashing
    1.2/2.5 WheelSlash: 5 Atk, 4 WP, Slashing, AoE (byte 09 = 92)

    3/6 ThunderThrust: 6 Atk, 2 WP, Electric/Piercing/Slashing
    2/3 Smash: 6 Atk, 3 WP, Blunt/Slashing

    3.5/7.0 SwallowSwing: 7 Atk, 2 WP, Slashing, Aerial
    2.3/3.5 Heaven/Hell: 7 Atk, 3 WP, Slashing, Stuns (byte 04 = 00, byte 09 = 10)
    1.4/1.7 GaleSlash: 7 Atk, 5 WP, Piercing/Slashing, Aerial vs. all enemies

    1.6/2.0 BearCrush: 8 Atk, 5 WP, Blunt/Slashing
    1.3/1.6 DeadEnd: 8 Atk, 6 WP, Piercing/Slashing, Instant Death (byte 04 = 07, byte 09 = 10)
    1.1/1.3 TripleThrust: 8 Atk, 7 WP, Piercing/Slashing (byte 09 = 10)

    1.8/2.2 2GaleSlash: 9 Atk, 5 WP, Piercing/Slashing, Aerial vs. all enemies
    1.2/1.5 TurbidCurrent: 9 Atk, 7 WP, Slashing
    1.0/1.1 Haze-to-Wheel: 9 Atk, 9 WP, Slashing, Vs. all enemies

    2.5/3.3 WillowBranch: 10 Atk, 4 WP, Piercing/Slashing
    2.0/2.5 HeadWind: 10 Atk, 5 WP, Slashing (byte 09 = 10)
    1.6/2.0 Blizzard: 10 Atk, 6 WP, Cold/Slashing (byte 04 = 02)

    1.5/1.8 NoMoment: 11 Atk, 7 WP, Blunt/Slashing
    1.5/1.8 RisingNova: 11 Atk, 7 WP, Heat/Slashing

    1.7/2 Still Stream: 12 Atk, 7 WP, Slashing
    3.0/4 ShadowCounter: 12 Atk, 4 WP, Slashing (byte 09 = 10)

    1.6/1.8 RosarioImpale: 13 Atk, 8 WP, Piercing/Slashing

    3.5/4.6 MoonlightCut: 14 Atk, 4 WP, Slashing

    1.6/1.7 LifeSprinkler: 16 Atk, 10 WP, Slashing (byte 09 = 10)

    2.6/3 Tres Flores: 24 Atk, 9 WP, Slashing


    Skills that stand out (something of a personal analysis, your mileage may vary.):

    Tres Flores: No wonder it doesn't combo well.

    MoonlightCut: Excellent WP efficiency, even without mastery. With mastery, SwallowSwing is even better, though.

    RosarioImpale: The most outright powerful Piercing sword move. By no means the most efficient, but for those occasions when Piercing is better, it looks promising.

    ShadowCounter: Very efficient WP-wise, and although it doesn't have the Aerial byte set it still acts as a long-range skill...so there's something to look into.

    RisingNova: Need Heat damage from a Sword? Here you go.

    NoMoment: Need Blunt damage from a Sword? This is the biggest Atk of the lot, and just as cost-effective as RisingNova...which isn't very, but hey.

    Blizzard: Not quite as powerful but more cost-effective than RisingNova. Oh, and it's Cold damage instead of Fire.

    Headwind: Fairly efficient.

    WillowBranch: A quite-efficient Piercing-style Sword move.

    Haze-to-Wheel: Unless there's more to damage than we've seen, it's kinda meh. It is, apparently, long-range, though.

    2GaleSlash: Seems to be the best attack-all for Swords, being cheaper than H2W. Plus it's Piercing AND Slashing, for when that helps.

    DeadEnd: Piercing, but not very cost effective for that. Instant Death is nice, though.

    GaleSlash: The poor man's 2GaleSlash. ... Weaker than H2W but more cost-effective.

    Heaven/Hell: StunSlash is free, but w e a k. Heaven/Hell is pretty efficient, and hits harder than StunSlash. And it stuns. Pure Slashing.

    SwallowSwing: Wow. THE most cost-effective move in the game if you go with physical mastery. Plus, long-range means you avoid barriers. Pure Slashing, which may be its only weakness.

    ThunderThrust: Not as powerful, but more WP-smart than WillowBranch. It's also the go-to move for Swords to deal Electric damage. And for Piercing it's even more cost-efficient than Thrust!

    WheelSlash: AoE, and more cost-efficient than Haze-to-Wheel, but then H2W hits all. It's not horrible, but there's shinier.

    HardSlash: The most cost-efficient Blunt damage for Swords.

    DoubleSlash: Something has to be off here, because we know that DoubleSlash is stronger than a normal attack. Hence my looking at byte 09, but that's just a hunch. But it's a sweet skill regardless. ^^

    Godless/Kasumi: No wonder! They basically hit your opponent's weakest point, in addition to being outright strong to begin with.

    AsuraRevenge: In a solo fight where you know you'll get this off, it would be superb. But Asura's regular strike isn't hugely powerful against bosses (it does some instant death thing, doesn't it?) and it's not that cost-effective either.

  9. #9
    Cute Li'l UFO Eroneous's Avatar
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    CrossShot also has an odd WP quirk--it says '01' but clearly costs 4.

    Also, byte 03 (Attack power) for CrossShot is 00. Interesting, to say the least.

    EDIT: No, that's my fault. I had switched the values for CrossShot and StunShot. So that actually fixes that altogether.
    Last edited by Eroneous; 03-06-2009 at 06:59 PM. Reason: Whoops.

  10. #10
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    EW: You've identified byte 03 as "Attack Power"--is that correct?

    Regarding ShadowCounter: there's a difference between Anti-Air and Non-Contact (aka long-range). Anti-Air is bit 01 in byte 06 and means "does extra damage to aerial targets". I haven't found where Non-Contact is set yet, but it means "avoids barriers".

    Some other things we should look out for:
    -Combo data.
    -Ammo used.
    -Ability speed modifier
    -[Non-]Contact. (e.g. all throws, all gun techs, SwallowSwing) Could be a bit for Non-Contact OR a bit for Contact; don't know which.
    -Anti-Undead. (e.g. SunRay, CrossShot, SacredSong)
    -Anti-Mec. (e.g. MagneticStorm)
    -Unblockable. (e.g. NoMoment, BoundShot, TimeEclipse)
    -Never Miss? (e.g. Missile?)
    -HP Drain? (e.g. HPDrain, Bloodsucker, FireKiss)
    -various stat [de]Buffs?

    Based on how Romancing SaGa: MS (PS2) does Combo Data, I would expect there to be a number of Combo Characteristics (e.g. Dashing, Non-Dashing, Ascending, Descending, etc). Each ability that can combo is set to Send and/or Receive some of those Characteristics. If Ability A goes immediately before Ability B, and Ability A Sends at least one Characteristic that Ability B Receives, then a Combo is formed between them.

    In RS:MS, there were 16 Combo Characteristics. I would hazard a guess that each Ability devoted 4 bytes to them--2 bytes for Characteristics Sent, and 2 bytes for Characteristics Received, with one bit for each Characteristic in each case.

    Unfortunately, I don't know how many Characteristics there are in SF, nor what they are, what bytes control them, or how the Characteristics and Sending/Receiving would be situated across those bytes. If, for example, there were also 16 Characteristics in SF, we could hope that their data would be contained within four adjacent bytes, but based on the item defense data, they may not be adjacent. In fact, if EW has correctly ID'd byte 03, then there AREN'T four adjacent bytes left. Further, while I personally would organize the data such that the first byte held Send data for the first eight Characteristics, the second byte held Send data for the rest, the third byte held Receive data for the first eight, and the fourth byte held Receive data for the rest, it could well be done differently. Perhaps they would instead alternate Send/Receive between bytes (e.g. 1 & 3 Send, 2 & 4 Receive). Or Receive could come first. Or they might do both Send and Receive for only four characteristics per byte. Or there might be 8 characteristics total. Or 32.....or who knows? I've tried looking for patterns, similarities, differences, etc. between known self-comboers and non-comboers, but so far I haven't had any luck. It should get easier as we narrow down the possible bytes, though.

    I'd been thinking Ammo Used would be a whole byte, but if the only options are "1" and "5", it could be just 2 bits in a byte with other stuff...?

    I'm virtually certain there must be a value for Ability speed modifier (not necessarily in this data), and it must be more complex than "1 bit if always first, 1 bit if always last". As a sloppy example, BJ&K and Rabbit using HypnoFlash go before Kraken (QUI=54) using Maelstrom, who goes before EngineerCar (QUI=85) using TigerRampage, who goes before the last two characters doing whatever. Focusing on just one aspect, TigerRampage must make EngineerCar slower than Kraken, but not automatically last; ergo abilities must be able to precisely modify speed.

  11. #11
    Once a Great Tit, Always a Great Tit Skankin' Garbage's Avatar
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    Rock on! With your permission, may I update the wiki with this info?

    Two things, though:

    1. No information for the Kusanagi = :(, although if I had to take a guess, I'd say Slashing and Force. Could you verify that?

    2. Are you sure that those attack power numbers are correct? While a lot of those make sense, a few of them absolutely baffle me, like MoonlightCut/ShadowCounter being stronger than TripleThrust, and I'm POSITIVE I've never gotten TresFlores to deal more damage than LifeSprinker - it's a big part of why I stopped using Katanas to begin with.


    All my diggaz say WHAT!?

    Spoiler: Magic (still) ROCKS!

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  12. #12
    Cute Li'l UFO
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    Hmmm...while I will agree that byte 03 seems strongly related to attack power roughly 80% of the time, I really can't agree that the relationship is as simple as "byte 03 always = attack power".

    First, there are numerous non-damaging abilities with non-00 entries in byte 03. CharmGaze is 02 while the other Gazes are 00. CounterFear is 01. Da-Dum is 04. BattleSong is 08 while SadSong is 00. Macumba is 81. PsychoArmor is 08. Fascination is 02. Awakening is 08. 9 of the 18 Dodge[X] abilities are non-00. AntiStone is 0A.

    Second, there are quite a few cases in which these numbers don't match what we know. HeadWind is 0A while NoMoment is 0B yet does significantly less damage. DSC is merely 0E while SkyTwister is 14. GaleAttack and GroundHit are both 04, yet clearly, GroundHit does much more damage.

    While some of these cases might be explicable by differences in elements or possibly which stats are used, others are not. There must be more to determining attack power than just byte 03.

    Also, I'm reading 00 in byte 03 and 01 in byte 11 for CrossShot and 04 in byte 03 and 04 in byte 11 for StunShot. EW, when you say you "switched the values for CrossShot and StunShot", do you mean that all values for all bytes for CrossShot and StunShot in the ability dump should be switched?

  13. #13
    Once a Great Tit, Always a Great Tit Skankin' Garbage's Avatar
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    I also just remembered:

    Besides missing the info for Kusanagi, were you able to find any information on the innate sword techs? I'll list them here for quick reference:

    MillionDollers (CometBlade)
    FinalStrike (FiendRog, TwiggyRod, Glirandy)
    DirtyFang (JackalSword)
    BraveHeart (Lordstar)
    ShadowHold (ShadowDagger)
    SilverFang (SilverSpread, user must be equipped with Arcane Magic "Fool")
    ElementDissolve (SplashSword)

    Having info on these would be the dopest.


    All my diggaz say WHAT!?

    Spoiler: Magic (still) ROCKS!

    http://jamieobeso.blogspot.com/ (updated 7/26/08)

  14. #14
    Cute Li'l UFO Eroneous's Avatar
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    Zarak: Yes, the stats are in the right order but the names aren't. Just switch those around and it's all jim and dandy. Also, I myself have been debating what else influences attack power. StunSlash is most definitely weaker than a normal sword swing, but DoubleSlash is significantly stronger. Unfortunately, byte 09 doesn't seem to have any effect on that, unlike I'd thought before. Also, don't Gazes attack vs. Status defense? If so that explains why they have attack power.

    Skankin': I haven't gotten around to all those yet, but I do have some info here that might be quasi-interesting. ^^

    Here's a breakdown of what I've found ability byte 04 will do. Note that anything with a ?? for its effect may be blatantly obvious, but just changing byte 04 in DoubleSlash didn't make it happen, so with some skills there is another byte that handles that.

    If there is 'also Skill' listed, it means that Skill may not inflict what byte 04 suggests, due to another (presently unknown) byte, I'd wager.

    Ability byte 04:
    FF: None (many many skills)

    00: Stun (also Gold, Magician, Fool)
    01: Blind (also DeathGaze, DeathTouch, SphinxRiddle, Ectoplasnet)
    02: Palsy (also StunShot)
    03: Venom (PoisonGas, also Yell)
    04: Instant Death? (Stone? Petrify, StoneGas, DeadlyMoss, Cockatrice--Doesn't show as such in the status byte, though.)
    05: Venom (Nightmare)
    06: Angry (TripGas)
    07: Instant Death (DeadEnd, Implosion, Reaper)
    08: (Blue) Mess (also Flash)
    09: ?? (EnergyChain)
    0A: Instant Death? (LightningWeb--also Kylin'sSong, Thunderbolt)
    0B: ?? (Tackle, GhostCannon)
    0C: ?? (PoisonMist, Call)
    0D: Turn around (Hidebehind)
    0E: Instant Death (RunAway) (enemy runs away, I guess)
    0F: Charm (FireKiss, also Possession)

    10: STR Down (PowerGrab, also MysteryTap)
    11: QUI Down (GasFlame, BeetleJuice, SpiderNet, HeatWave)
    12: INT Down (BrainCrush)
    13: WIL Down (Grasp, StinkGas, ElfShot)
    14: PSY Down (GhostTouch)
    15: VIT Down (GoldHand, Solvent)
    16: Dispel (DarkSphere, Vortex, Grail)
    17: Skip turn (TimeLeap)
    18: WEA Up (VictoryRune)
    1A: DEF Up (Shield)
    1B: DEF Down (AcidBreath, also Assist)
    1C: Instant Death (CounterMagician)
    1D: 'Evaporate' (Evaporate, HideRune)--but see below
    1E: VitalityRune (VitalityRune)
    1F: Null regeneration? (DirtyFang, Jackal, SilverFang)

    20: ?? (Hypnotism, SleepGas)
    21: (WallRune)
    22: Target uses RavaBarrier at turn's end (RavaBarrire)
    23: Inflicted Awakening? (PowerSave, also IronPole)
    24: SoulRune (SoulRune)
    25: V-MAX (V-MAX)
    26: Instant Death? (FierySpirit, also V-END)
    27: Gives extra turn (TimeTwister)
    28: Instant Death? (TimeEclipse)
    29: ?? (Asura, AsuraRevenge, KO Swing, DragonSwing, GiantSwing, MysticSword)
    2A: FireBarrier? (DodgeDrain)
    2B: FireBarrier (FireBreath, FlameBlast)
    2C: IceBarrier? (DodgeTouch)
    2D: IceBarrier (ArcticBreath)
    2E: BoltBarrier? (DodgeGale)
    2F: BoltBarrier (BoltBreath, BoltBlast)

    30: ?? (PsychoArmor, Defense)
    31: Instant Death? (Maelstrom)
    32: ?? (Supersonic)
    33: Blind, Venom, Charm, ?? (HyperGaze, Drunk)
    34: ?? (MysticalChange)
    35: ?? (WaterCannon)
    36: ?? (SpaceContact) (Made DoubleSlash do about half damage)
    37: Target uses Revolution9 at round's end (Revolution9)
    38: STR, WIL Down (SadSong)
    39: ?? (3Mistresses)

    40: ?? (StunGaze, StunTouch, ShadowNet, SpellBound, ShadowHold)
    44: ?? (Salmonella)

    7C: ?? (Heal, MagicHeal)

    80: ?? (StoneGaze)
    84: ?? (AntiStone)

    E0: ?? (FreedomRune)

    FC: ?? (MindHeal)

    *When I change byte 04 of DoubleSlash to 1D, I effectively reduce the Pickbird enemy to a shadow--I can't see its graphic, but can see its shadow, and can select no commands (all are greyed out, as if I lack the WP to use them) but the fight is technically still on. ^^


    I'll scope out those others Skankin' mentioned presently.
    Last edited by Eroneous; 03-07-2009 at 09:21 PM. Reason: 'also Skill' disclaimer

  15. #15
    Cute Li'l UFO Eroneous's Avatar
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    MillionDollers: 12 Atk, 7 WP, Heat/Piercing/Slashing, Vs. all enemies
    FinalStrike: 7 Atk, 10 WP, Force/Heat/Slashing, Breaks weapon
    DirtyFang: 3 Atk, 2 WP, Slashing, Nulls regen (bytes 04/05: 1F 01)
    ShadowHold: 0 Atk, 1 WP, Status, Inflicts Palsy
    SilverFang: 6 Atk, 5 JP, Slashing, Nulls regen (bytes 04/05: 1F 01)
    ElementDissolve: 0 Atk, 5 WP, Status, Removes enemy from battle (bytes 04/05: FF 01)
    Kusanagi: 4 Atk, 3 WP, Electric/Slashing

    BraveHeart: 0 Atk, 5 WP, Status, User WEA up (bytes 04/05: 00 00)

  16. #16
    Once a Great Tit, Always a Great Tit Skankin' Garbage's Avatar
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    Excellent! So, do I have permission to post this? I've got the table ready to go if I have the green light.


    All my diggaz say WHAT!?

    Spoiler: Magic (still) ROCKS!

    http://jamieobeso.blogspot.com/ (updated 7/26/08)

  17. #17
    Cute Li'l UFO Eroneous's Avatar
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    I, Eroneous "Lee" Waylay, heretofore do give permission to Skankin' Garbage and other affiliated contacts involved in the Saga Frontier community to repost any information uncovered, clarified, or spanked squarely upon the buttocks by me to the Saga Frontier Wiki.

    Notarized, signed, attested, and weathered on Sunday 08 March 2009.

    Also, I've got the most kickass hot sauce right here. Man! I love me some habanero, to be sure.

  18. #18
    Cute Li'l UFO
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    EW: My point about Gazes was that their byte 03 values are inconsistent. Most of them DON'T have a value there--CharmGaze was the only one that DID. If it was a matter of byte 03 being their "attack power" versus status defense, then they would ALL need a non-00 entry, not just CharmGaze.

    For byte 04, value 09 could be another Palsy, since EnergyChain can cause that. Perhaps it is distinct from the 02 Palsy in that the high-WIL version of EnergyChain is required in order to cause the effect. This might explain why it didn't work with DoubleSlash merely by modifying byte 04--changing some other byte is probably necessary to create a high-WIL version of the ability and thereby satisfy the requirement to cause Palsy.

    Regarding "28: Instant Death? (TimeEclipse)". TimeEclipse actually causes Petrification, not Death. This is why it works against Dullahans--Petrification is just about the only ailment their SkeleMail doesn't make them immune to.

    For 29 in byte 04, this is probably an Instant Death. All of the abilities you list can cause ID, with the possible exceptions of KO Swing and DragonSwing (not to be confused with KOThrow and DragonTurn), which I've never seen.

    I've attempted to reproduce your results in modifying DoubleSlash byte 04->1d using the following code: 3002b5bb 001d (DoubleSlash's YYYYY value + 04). So, far, I've had no success. I don't have access to Pickbirds anymore, so I'm trying it on Krakens. I also tried 3002b5bb 0002 to cause Palsy, since I know that works on Krakens, but had no success with that either. Have I misunderstood the addresses listed in the ability dump? What codes are you using?

  19. #19
    Cute Li'l UFO Eroneous's Avatar
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    Of the addresses listed in the ability dump, the leftmost is in the PS-EXE, the next is in a .psv save state.

    However, RAM is offset somewhat differently than the save state. Subtract 2B0h from the .psv address and you should get the address you're looking for in RAM.

    e.g. Slash is listed as being at 2B593h; in RAM it is actually at 2B2E3h, a difference of 2B0h.

    Interestingly the offset for items is different--subtract 280h instead of 2B0h.

  20. #20
    Cute Li'l UFO
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    EW: Many thanks! That's what I was missing. Excellent; now I can really start testing things.

    I've now gotten DoubleSlash to inflict both Hide and Palsy on Krakens (not at the same time).

    It's worth noting with Hide (1D) that not all of your characters' abilities become greyed-out--only those which require targeting on a specific enemy. Abilities which target all enemies and those which are used on allies remain selectable.

  21. #21
    Cute Li'l UFO
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    I've done some testing by modifying BoundShot, a known self-comboer. My goal is to find the Combo Data, but I'm learning some other interesting things as well.

    Here's BoundShot's unmodified data:
    XXXXXXXX-YYYYYYYY-00-01-02-03-04-05-06-07-08-09-0a-0b-0c-0d-0e-0f-10-11-Ability
    __0000BFF3-0002baa3-05-B4-00-08-FF-01-00-40-72-00-90-08-00-01-1F-00-E0-05-BoundShot

    Prior to modification, Characters using BoundShot with TwoGun did ~4100 dmg 7/10 times and ~1250 3/10 times if not involved in a combo. When all five characters added QuickDraw and used BoundShot against a lone Dullahan, they formed 10/10 Lv5 Combos. They totalled just under 25,000 damage 8/10 times, and did ~22,000 damage 2/10 times.

    I began by changing all of BoundShot's bytes' values ->00. Even after this, Ammo used remained 1, so Ammo Used probably isn't in this data. Characters could only target themselves, and so (amusingly) shot themselves in the face.

    After returning byte 08 (targeting) to normal (=72), characters did not combo, did not use TwoGun, shot the target directly with no ricochets, did ~200-600 damage dependent upon character STR(!), used 1 Ammo from only the primary gun, and spent 0 WP/JP. They did, however, gain the ability to occassionally inflict Stun (as we would expect from byte 04 = 00). Between my characters' high QUI and BoundShot's new ability to Stun, I was unable to determine whether they were still using QuickDraw, as Dullahan never managed to act. BoundShot also remained Unblockable. It is also interesting that BoundShot retained its tendancy to occassionally do ~1/3-1/2 its "normal" damage, even after the variation due to character STR was accounted for. As a side note, my characters' damage from a basic Shot attack without TwoGun was ~200, so BoundShot was still doing more damage than that, even though Shot has a byte 03 (Atk Pwr?) value of 04, which is obviously greater than 00. However, the difference could still be due to Shot being Piercing element, while this modified BoundShot has 00 in byte 07 (elements). All my characters have WIL comparable to or in excess of STR, so I don't think that's responsible for the difference.

    After also returning byte 04 (ailments?) to normal (=FF), BoundShot no longer caused Stun, but my characters still always went before Dullahan (which they had also done before modification, even without QuickDraw), so I still can't determine whether they are using QuickDraw.

    After also returning byte 07 (elements) to normal (=40), damage decreased to ~100-400. I would guess, therefore, that a value of 00 in byte 07 bypasses the target's Defense. The damage decreased when byte 07 was returned to 40 and Dullahan's Piercing Defense was allowed to kick in. I'd also note that the average damage here is still higher than that of Shot, despite this BoundShot still having 00 in byte 03. This may form further argument against the idea that byte 03 = Attack Power. Finally, this change also removed BoundShot's tendancy to occassionally do 1/2 normal damage...which doesn't make any sense, since it should be becoming MORE like the normal BoundShot, not less.

    After also separately returning each of bytes 02, 06 (special properties), 09 (Area of Effect), 0C, and 0F (break weapon) to normal, no further changes were observed, which is not surprising, since they were 00 to begin with.

    After also returning byte 11 (WP/JP Cost) to normal (=05), WP Cost returned to 5, as expected. BTW, when this byte is changed, the change is visible both in battle and in the Equip Abilities menu.

    After also separately returning each of bytes 00 (=05) and 01 (=B4) to normal, no further changes were observed.

    After also returning byte 03 to normal (=08), damage increased to ~275 or ~900, still based on character STR (2 of my characters have 9 and 13, the other three have 69, 74, and 84). Despite my previous leanings, this clearly confirms that byte 03 is related to damage output.

    After also separately returning each of bytes 05 (=01) and 0A (=90) to normal, no further changes were observed.

    After also returning byte 0B to normal (=08), the characters began to show two guns and use 1 Ammo from each of their guns, but still only visibly fired one shot and damage was unchanged.

    After also returning byte 0D to normal (=01), the characters began visibly firing two shots, and damage and ricochets returned to normal, including being based on WIL and occassionally being 1/3 normal.

    After also returning byte 0E to normal (=1F), no further changes were observed.

    Finally, after also returning byte 10 to normal (=E0), the characters immediately began comboing again.

    So that gives us the following byte functions (* if new info):
    00: ??
    01: ??
    02: ??
    *03: definitely influences damage
    *04: even on its own, sufficient to cause at least some ailments
    05: ??
    06: still special properties, but BoundShot doesn't have any.
    *07: damage elements, as we already knew, but we may have learned that 00 bypasses all Defense.
    08: targeting, as we already knew.
    09: Area of Effect; again, we already knew that.
    0A: ??
    *0B: necessary for TwoGun
    0C: ??
    *0D: appears to either determine stat upon which damage is based, or reference a damage formula which determines that. More likely the latter, based on other abilities.
    0E: ??
    0F: break weapon if FF, which we knew
    *10: definitely Combo Data, though not necessarily the only byte for it.
    11: WP/JP Cost, as we knew.

    And yes, I cleared all modifications from RAM between each change in the modifications, so there were no unintended holdovers.

    I'm not done testing BoundShot modifications yet, but this is probably more than enough for one post.
    Last edited by Zaraktheus; 03-11-2009 at 12:52 PM. Reason: typo

  22. #22
    Cute Li'l UFO
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    Testing BoundShot again.

    This time I'll change only one byte at a time -> 00, then return it to normal and change only the next byte -> 00.

    Results:

    00 (was 05): No changes observed.

    01 (was B4): Missed 3/25 times. Had never missed before. Fluke? Or is this an Accuracy modifier? SharpShot is FA, and it supposedly never misses...

    02 (was 00): Already 00.

    03 (was 08): Lv5 Combo damaged reduced to: 7808, 9095, 9123, 9053, 7541. Based on that, ability damage at 00 may be increased by (1/3 * value). I'll test that further, later.

    04 (was FF): No changes observed unless I only allow one character to fire, in which case we can see that Stun is sometimes inflicted. If all characters fire, Dullahan is utterly destroyed before that can happen.

    05 (was 01): No changes observed.

    06 (was 00): Already 00.

    07 (was 40): 10/10 combos did ~25,000 damage; none did the expected occassional ~22,000. Fluke? Anyway, I was expecting an increase in damage (from bypassing Defense) that didn't happen. Weird.

    08 (was 72): Characters shoot selves in face; hilarity ensues, then death.

    09 (was 00): Already 00.

    0A (was 90): 3/5 combos did ~22k, 2/5 did ~25k. Not the expected ratio, but probably a fluke?

    0B (was 08): Characters showed only one gun, visibly fired only one shot, did not use Ammo from secondary gun, and combo damage was reduced to: 2/5 ~14.2k, 3/5 ~12.6k. In other words, TwoGun didn't work.

    0C (was 00): Already 00.

    0D (was 01): Showed two guns and used ammo from both, but visibly fired only one shot directly at target with no ricochets. Combo damage reduced to: 7912, 7236, 7931, 7233, 7869. Individual damage appears based on STR. So it used a different damage formula, as expected.

    0E (was 1F): Characters no longer form combos. Damage otherwise normal. This byte is definitely Combo Data, along with 10.

    0F (was 00): Already 00.

    10 (was E0): Again, no combos, but damage otherwise normal.

    11 (was 05): WP Cost becomes 0. No surprise.


    So byte 01 might be Accuracy, 00 in byte 07 didn't increase damage this time, and both bytes 0E and 10 are Combo Data.

  23. #23
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    who are you? are you jesus?

  24. #24
    Cute Li'l UFO
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    lol! Naw--my BAC isn't high enough for that to be PURE wine in my veins.

  25. #25
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    updated!

    i'll put the RAM addresses in the next update



    about the data you listed for sword techs (atk pwer and atk type)... i think the attack power you listed is used in the damage formulas, and you should list the formula bytes with that data too, for comparison purposes.

    i can't remember where it is or who did it, but there was a list of sword techs with the attack power and attack type (blunt, electric,...)
    Last edited by Sir_Vimes; 03-17-2009 at 02:33 PM.

  26. #26
    Cute Li'l UFO
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    Looking through the Ability Data, byte 01 generally seems to correspond to Ability Accuracy, with higher values being less likely to Miss. There are some exceptions (notably Missile is 00 but supposedly never Misses unless ECM-ed; I expect that "Never Miss" is probably controlled by a bit somewhere else), but the pattern fits pretty well. I've been testing this theory, however, and it doesn't seem to be holding up...

    I've been doing my testing on byte 01 by changing it to different values for the ability Beat (version 7B) with the code: 3002BB8A 00##. For my shield thread, I compiled a lot of data on Block and Miss Rates for Beat when used by Kraken, and I'm comparing that data to what I get when I change Beat byte 01 to each tested value.

    For anyone curious about how I calculate Miss percentages, it's (#Miss)/(#Miss+Block Ratio denominator). In other words, I divide the number of Misses by the total number of attacks, which includes Blocks, Hits, and Misses. The Block Ratio denominator is only Blocks + Hits, with Misses not included, since I don't know in which order the game checks for Blocking vs. Missing.


    First, the data for unaltered Beat:

    Test 9(Aggregate of 9 and 9b): ExcelShield only vs. Kraken's Beat (Blunt element only):
    Beat Blocked: 130/234 (56%), with 47 Misses (17%) not included.


    Next, I changed Beat's normal byte 01 value of 78 to each of 00, FF, 01, 14 (the lowest value of any damage-dealing Ability, RandomBaz), and 64.

    Test 12: ExcelShield Only vs Kraken's Beat(Byte 01:78->00)
    Beat Blocked: 48/141 (34%). No Misses.

    Test 13: ExcelShield Only vs Kraken's Beat(Byte 01:78->FF)
    Beat Blocked: 49/118 (42%). No Misses.

    Test 14: ExcelShield Only vs Kraken's Beat(Byte 01:78->01)
    Beat Blocked: 56/132 (42%). No Misses.

    Test 15: ExcelShield Only vs Kraken's Beat(Byte 01:78->14(RandomBaz))
    Beat Blocked: 29/57 (51%). No Misses.

    Test 16: ExcelShield Only vs Kraken's Beat(Byte 01:78->64)
    Beat Blocked: 45/80 (56%), with 12 Misses (13%) not included.

    So 00, FF, 01, and 14 all resulted in Beat apparently never missing, despite the fact that they're pretty different values. I finally tried 64 because it was a value belonging to many Abilities which I think tend to Miss "more than usual", yet was close enough to 78 that I hoped it would function more similarly. It did, but Beat still missed less (13%) than at 78 (17%), which was the opposite of what I expected. It's quite possible that my sample size isn't large enough to be accurate, though.


    Here's some miscellaneous data about Kraken's other Blockable attacks for comparative purposes:

    Since nothing about these attacks was changed between these tests:
    Aggregate of Tests 9 and 12-16: (All are Blunt element only)
    Coils Blocked: 51/97 (53%), with 13 Misses (12%) not included.
    Feeler Blocked: 12/124 (10%), with 4 Misses (3%) not included.
    MightyCyclone Blocked: 10/27 (37%). No Misses.

    Byte 01 values are:
    Coils: 78
    Feeler: 8C
    MightyCyclone: 6E

    So we'd expect Feeler to be more Accurate than Coils, which it is, but also expect Coils to be more Accurate than MightyCyclone, which it isn't. However, since I've NEVER seen MightyCyclone Miss in these tests, it's possible it might have my theoretical "Never Miss" bit set (It's also possible that a meager sample size of 27 is too small to rely on). We'd also expect Coils to Miss about as often as Beat, which it might--at 13% vs 17%, they're different, but not so much so that it couldn't be due to random variation.


    Because the Miss Rate for Beat DID change when I altered byte 01, I am reasonably certain that byte 01 (at least partly) determines Accuracy. However, I am not as sure that the relationship is "higher value = more Accurate". Since changes to byte 01 also appeared to affect the Block Rate, it may determine both Accuracy and "Blockability". I just don't know how or what the values actually mean. I may eventually try testing some more values, but I've had enough for now.

    Anybody else see a pattern in byte 01 that I'm missing?

  27. #27
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    maybe byte 01 is an X value in a formula that's determined by another byte? that's just a guess based on what's known about final fantasy tactics.

    EDIT:
    ability accuracy: either it's part of a formula determined by another byte, or it uses some kind of bit toggle... you might have more dramatic results with a smaller range:
    78->77
    78->76
    78->75
    78->74
    78->73

    78->79
    78->80
    78->81
    78->82
    78->83

    FROM ABILITY DATA:
    0d - I think this has something to do with the damage routine called up when a move is used. appears to either determine stat upon which damage is based, or reference a damage formula which determines that. More likely the latter.
    07 = status effect?
    08 = missile moves
    09 = 'positive' buffs
    0A = inherent to heavy weapons?
    0B = enemy removal from battle, maybe instant death
    0D = hp stealing moves
    17 = increased damage to undead [verified. sunray, flashfire, ghost cannon, cross slash,...]
    18 = healing moves
    19 = single target healing moves
    1C = increased damage to mecs
    36 = sword counter moves
    38 = TestShot
    39 = centipede crush
    3C = QuickDraw and TwoGun


    Kraken's Beat has 02 in byte 0d...
    other abilities that also have 02 in byte 0d:
    -Magin Rampage
    -all marital arts counters except counter swing, dragon suplex, and dragon swing
    -bright fist, sparkling roll
    -al-blaster, punch, kick, chop

    wow, i got the urge to do some data analysis! I have a minor update for item data on me, but geocities is under maitenance.



    ****BEGIN DATA ANALYSIS****
    0d - I think this has something to do with the damage routine called up when a move is used. appears to either determine stat upon which damage is based, or reference a damage formula which determines that. More likely the latter.

    00 = sword techs, dirty fan, million dollers, BeamSword, Hammer, PluralSlash, HammerCrush, FinalStrike [last one],
    01 = shot, [total, trick, reaction, bound] shot, proton rocket, HE_Rocket, RandomBaz, RailCannon #1, Machine Vulcan, RangeFire,
    02 = magin rampage, counter, counter-[chop, fist, bckfist, thrust, slice], KO [punch, kick# 1, fist, kick #2, run], dragon [beat, fist, slide, bckfist], bright fist, sparkling roll, al-blaster, shining kick, punch, kick, chop, sliding, swayback, fist, backfist, crushbeat, rotation kick, KO Throw #2, goldhand, triangle kick, ogre run, scuffle, lastshot, corkscrew, skytwister, beat, Fang, Fangcrush, Daggerjaw, beak, horn, petrify, doubleAxe, brainCrush, Beat #2, scissors, powerBeat, chop, feeler, claw, poisongrip, blade, gale attack, groundhit, heatsmash, icesmash, titas wave, thrust [monster], kick [monster], griffith scratch [monster], tail, tail hit, spin attack, stinger, poison needle, minion strike, coils, tackle, dash, headbutt, stampede, wing, gliderspike [monster], seed vulcan, needles, kusanagi, ink, rock, poison gun, boomerang hook, starlight shower, Shock Soldier, Pop_Knight, CosmicRave, MysticSword, Needle, Lance, Blade, HeatSmash, GriffithScratch [mystic], MysticGlove, Poisonous Blow, Feeler {ran out of room here!}, HellWing, GrapeShot, IceSmash, TigerRampage [2d60f], TigerRampage, [2d621], Mystic Boots, PowerKick, Spiders, Assasinate, TitasWave [2d71d], Vulcan [2d7e3], ChainHeat, IronBall, StunNeedle, HeavyRailCannon,
    03 = KO swing, dragon suplex, dragon swing, airthrow, rolling cradle, giant swing, babel crumble, locomotionG, Dragonturn, swingDDT, VandalFlip, PowerBomb, mighty cyclone,
    04 = oscillation, spore, solvent, fire barrier, ice barrier, bolt barrier, water cannon, beetle juice, acid breath, blade net, thunderbolt, pain powder, windblast, tornado, heatwave, maelstrom, supersonic, scream, siren, lightball, tremor, quake, quicksand, silf, ignis, mega windblast, kyon's smile #1, salamander, kyon's smile #2, dark sphere, vapor blast, reverse gravity, time eclipse, energy chain #1?, implosion, vermillion sand, rava shot, saber, tower, black cat, nightmare, jackal, cockatrice, reaper, silver fang, vulcan, MecSonata, Graviton, Oscillation, WaterCannon [mystic], Deadly Powder, SpreadBlaster, ThunderBall, BladeNet, Tremor, QuickSand, ThunderBolt, HyperBazooka,
    05 = judgementX, sonic wave, graviton, lifewave, enemy fire, Retribution,
    06 = dodge needle, dodge tackle, dodge wing, Repair Pack, AntiStone,
    07 = status effect?, cross shot, shock, stungaze, charmgaze, stonegaze, hypnotism, psychout, stun touch, feint, counter-fear, sleep gas, deadly moss, flash, poison mist, illstorm, lullaby, shadownet, macumba, fascination, selection, spell bound, sharp pain, shadow hold, dodge thunder, dodge rock, paralyzer, Hypnoflash, Hypnotism, PsyNet, Flash, Psych out, Sweep, MysteryTap, Hypnotism [last], Smile, Salmonella, FlashBomb,
    08 = missile moves, Missile, AT_Missile, MicroMissile,
    09 = 'positive' buffs, kylin's song, assist, da-dum, battle song, psycho armor, yell, dodge tail, dodge seduction, Portrait #1, Da-Dum, Assist, Portrait #3, PowerSave,
    0A = inherent to heavy weapons? [destruction beam, blaster, blaster sword, sonic blaster, water cannon [mec], beam cannon, magnablast, bolt cannon, flame thrower, bolt thrower, plasma bullet, "Laser", Magnify,
    0B = enemy removal from battle, maybe instant death, deathgaze, death touch, sphinx riddle, ectoplastnet, flash flood, vanish, element dissolve, Suffocation,
    0C = deathgrip,
    0D = hp stealing moves, bloodsucker, grasp, ghost touch, firekiss, HPDrain, powergrab, BloodSucker, Lord's Dinner,
    0E = sweep, spidernet, hide behind, delay order, timeleap, gate, broken glass #1, dwarf rune, sacrifice, counter magician, dodge drain, dodge touch, dodge gale, evasion laser, evasion rocket, evasion bullet, virus, kyon's smile #b4, shooting mastery, combat mastery, tiger program, dragon program, maxwell program, self repair, Jammer, Call, Runaway,
    0F = clawbit #2, Bit,
    10 = clawbit #3, Bit [last one],
    11 = PoisonDamage,
    12 = trample, gasflame, fire breath, flame blast, artic breath, bolt breath, bolt blast, stink gas, poison gas, stone gas, trip gas, diving press, FireBreath, ArcticBreath, Crystalizer, Trample [last one],
    13 = stasis rune,
    14 = clawbit #1, hypergaze, lightning web, Intercept System, BervaCounter, MoonScraper, GodHand, LordCannon, Carnage, BusterLauncher, 3Mistresses, Saber,
    15 = focus shot, CrossHair,
    16 = stun shot,
    17 = increased damage to undead [verified. sunray, flashfire, ghost cannon, cross slash,...], flash turn, sacred song, elf shot, sunray, flashfire, awakening? [wtf? maybe lifewave and awakening are reversed? is this my mistake, or a saga programmers mistake?], GhostCannon,
    18 = final crusade, life rain, reviva,
    19 = heal, magic heal, starlight heal, mind heal, dodge smash, Kyon's Smile #d1, MagicHeal,
    1A = pain doubler,
    1B = MagiDefense,
    1c = gremlin touch, magnetic storm, Logic Bomb, GremlinEffect,
    1D = sharpshot,
    1E = suplex,
    1F = Seduction, Pheremone,
    20 = phantasm shot #1, phantasm shot #2,
    21 = KAMIKAZE_Crush,
    22 = gold,
    23 = kyon's smile #b3, Energy Supply,
    24 = light sword,
    25 = dodge powder,
    26 = psychic prison,
    27 = backfire,
    28 = shadow servant,
    29 = glass shield,
    2A = broken glass #2,
    2B = overdrive,
    2C = Satellite beam,
    2D = Mirror shield, magician,
    2E = mad attack,
    2F = death curse, death,
    30 = regeneration,
    31 = reviva,
    32 = freedom rune, dodge gaze,
    33 = revolution 9 #2, rava barrire #2,
    34 = possesion,
    35 = shoot all #2,
    36 = kasumi, godless, asura revenge
    37 = chaos stream,
    38 = test shot,
    39 = centipede crush,
    3a = light shift, dark shirt, fool, ECM, CounterECM,
    3b = alkaiser change,
    3c = cross deflect, clawbit #4, quickdraw, twogun, mystical change, contact, touch, psy-reflector, sad song, photosynthesis, deathsynthesis, firey spirit, vortex, time twister, revolution 9 #1, evaporate, iron pole, drunk, rava barrire #1, shield, grail, victory rune, vitality rune, hide rune wall rune, soul rune, dodge riddle, dodge net, dodge tremor, dodge death grip, kyon's smile #b2, V_MAX, V_END, Shoot_ALL, Portrait #2, SpaceContact, Defense,
    3d = spoil, dodge flash, Spoil,
    3e = shadow counter, kaiser smash
    3f = al-phoenix, re-al-phoenix, deflect lance, dark phoenix,
    40 = DSC #1,
    41 = lifesteal [last],
    42 = magma touch,
    43 = ironclog shot, magic stone, MagicStone [last one],
    44 = SatelliteLinker,
    45 = brave heart,


    note: the various kyon's smile attacks are the skills used in the 9 guardian rings.
    note: i'm beginning to appreciate the way squeenix organized this games abilities. everything's out in the open. it's a lot easier to hack than FFT... i don't see any need to try asm hacking yet, thank god.




    **FROM SQUIDHEAD'S OR SENOR WAYLAY'S SITE, FORGOT WHICH**
    Skill Quirks and Related Statistics

    Most of the physical attacks with fire, cold, electrical, or energy damage are powered by WILL.
    This includes most if not all of the katana attacks, Rising Nova, and Crosscut.

    *Breath Attacks- Effectiveness determined by HP and VIT.
    *CrossSlash- Effectiveness determined by WIL and PSY
    *Cross Shot- This move is dependant partially on strength.
    *Dark Sphere- Has the 'vanish' effect on the opponent it is used on.
    *Dirty Fang & PhantasmShot (Jackal) - Nullifies regeneration. Good for Kylin battle.
    *Logic Bomb- Effectiveness is probably determined by INT.
    *Magical Heal- The Mystic version cures petrification. The Monster version removes status ailments.
    *Pain Doubler- Target's Max HP is reduced by amount of damage inflicted.
    *Phantasm Shot- The higher the caster's INT, the better the chance of summoning a more advanced beast. At 80+ INT, the caster will summon cockatrice or death 9 out of 10 times.
    *Self Control- Powered by INT and WIL.
    *Self Repair- The healing formula is 7+VIT. Engineer Car's formula is 16+ VIT, and Leonard's is 8+VIT.
    *Shield Card- Effectiveness is determined by WIL and INT.
    *Shooting Mastery&Combat Mastery- Increases attack power by 1.5 times.
    *Sphinx Riddle- Effectiveness determined by INT
    *Starlight Heal- The effectiveness is dependant largely on INT and CHA. At 90 INT and CHA, Starlight Heal recovers over 600 damage.
    *Vitality Rune- The formula for regeneration is Max HP/16 + VIT+1.
    Thunder Thrust
    Fist
    Godhand
    Triangle Kick
    Sky Twister
    Rising Nova
    All four Katana moves
    Blizzard can cause Palsy

    Victory Rune & Braveheart - Increase the effectiveness of weapons and healing items/equipment.
    Possibly other Mec bodyparts/equipments.

    SacredSong(Magatama) is better with high WILL

    For Mystic (and possibly Monster) moves:
    Maelstrom
    Flame Breath
    Arctic Breath
    Crystalizer
    Tremor
    Quicksand
    Heat Smash
    Ice Smash
    Thunderbolt probably Psy
    Net
    Oscillation
    probably Flash
    Deadly Powder
    Spreadblaster
    Magical Heal
    Tiger Rampage
    Thunderball
    Lightball
    Assist
    Spoil
    Bladenet
    MysteryTap probably uses CHA
    The rest all have only physical components.
    Liferain is based on max HP.
    Tiger Rampage possibly use STR, QUI and VIT

    Programs AKA MecSkills

    Virus- probably CHA.
    Self Repair- 7+VIT. For Engineer Car, 16+VIT. For Leonard, 8+VIT.
    Unaccompanied Sonata- magic stats. (Rough Japanesse translation)
    Kamui Crush- Magic stats. Power increased by Conbat Mastery.
    Shock Soldier- Phys. stats. Power increased by Combat Mastery.
    Sattelite Linker- WIL and MAYBE other magic-related stats. Increased by Shooting Mastery.
    Logic Bomb- In all likelihood, this is powered by INT.
    Jammer- magic based stats obviously, probably CHA.
    Hypnosis Flash- most likely CHA.
    Plural Slash- Phys stats. Combat Mastery increases power.
    Crosshairs- WIL most likely.
    RangeFire: WIL most likely.
    Hammer Crush- Phys most likely. Combat Mastery increases power.
    Laser- WIL
    Bit- probably WIL.

    Logic Bomb and Sphinx Riddle possibly use INT

    Healing Spells use CHArm

    PSYchic/CHArm/INT are probley the stats used to inflict status afflictions (Poison, Mess, ETC)

    For Mystics, GriffithScratch is slightly stronger than TigerRampage. It is also cheaper WP and
    causes Stun. TigerRampage self-comboes so choose carefully. For monsters, MightCyclone is cheaper
    than GriffithScratch, does more damage, and self-comboes.

    The "ElementDissolve" ability on a SplashSword works like the spell Vanish; it removes the enemy
    from the battle, negating it's drop.

    STR
    Every sword tech not listed elsewhere, Cross Shot, every fighting tech
    WIL
    Rising Nova, all katana techs, all gun techs
    INT
    All spells
    PSY
    Chance for processing extra effects
    VIT
    Defense against all damage
    CHA
    Defense against Charm, chance to charm
    QUI
    Speed in battle

    Forgot the rest!

    I could have sworn Will affected magic too. Correct me if I'm wrong.

    - Strength does raise the damage of every sword and fighting tech.

    - Quickness also raises the damage of all fighting techs.

    - Intelligence doesn't seem to have a noticeable effect on damage values (maybe a slight increase
    in magic, though I haven't tested magic extensively enough to come to a conclusion either way).
    It does however seem to increase the rate of status effects occurring.

    - Will had the most insight to offer, as I saw it as one of the more important stats before any
    of this testing. It has the most effect on status infliction (of the three mental stats). It also
    is the predominant stat figured into gun damage (I believe the only one, actually. With 99 Will
    and starting levels in the other stats, I was able to do 1664 damage with a single-gunned
    BoundShot). BoundShot's bounces rely entirely on the Will of the character using the gun (not
    Quickness, or any other stat). On a slightly random note, the boulders that fall during TrickShot
    increase in size with a character's Will stat (I never noticed that before, don't know if anyone
    else has). It does not increase the damage of Katana techs, as previously thought, nor do any
    stats other than Strength. It also does not affect RisingNova damage. Will seems to be about
    equal with Psychic in importance to magic attacks, though I'll have to find some more damage and
    healing averages to figure out which carries more weight.

    - Psychic seems to be important solely in magic damage and healing. It may help increase status
    infliction rate, but not by much.

    - CrossSlash is an interesting little bugger. When I used it with either starting stats, 99
    Quickness, or 99 Intelligence, it damaged an average of 300-400. I didn't get a number for it
    with 99 Strength, so I'll have to go back and try that, but here's the interesting part: With 99
    Will, the damage shot up into the 650-750 area. Then with 99 Psychic, the damage jumped up again
    into the 950 area! I'm rather interested to see just how much damage I can do with CrossSlash
    with 99 Strength, Will, and Psychic and a top-level sword. Probably something outrageous, like up
    in the 5k+ range, all for 2 WP (1 with mastery)

    Thunderbolt can also cause Stun to enemy Mecs.

    GremlinEffect has "critical hit on Mecs" ala MagneticStorm

    WIL is said to increase accuracy. I don't know if that's true, but if it is, it makes it SaGa
    Frontier's equivalent of the DEXterity stat in Romancing SaGas. QUI would be the AGI stat, since
    it apparently bumps up kung fu damage too.
    I'd be interested to know if the Japanese CD of SF labels WIL/QUI/INT as DEX/AGI/MAG.
    I'll second the Will = accuracy statement. After doing 99 Will and then switching to 99
    Intelligence, I noticed a significant number of fighting techs missing. Admittedly, I've noticed
    that some fighting techs miss when you're low in Strength, but I think having almost no Will
    probably hurts it much more.

    Also, if you have ever Gamesharked 99 of every stat (999 HP, 250 WP/JP as well) and then been hit
    by an Enemy Fire, it will do somewhere around 2112..... just going off of my memory of about 5
    years ago, but it seems it takes multiple stats into account. When Diva did her Retribution move
    with a maxed character, it did 12000...... do you know how these values come up?

    INT seems to affect the probability of getting a "good" Phantasm Shot.

    PSY affects Gun damage


    Seems Regeneration adds a slight bonus (10%?) to effects that already provide regeneration.
    (SelfRepair, 'Synthesis) [DS: The realm magic GS Spell?]


    ****END DATA ANALYSIS****

    It looks a lot better in notepad.
    Last edited by Sir_Vimes; 03-27-2009 at 09:22 AM.

  28. #28
    Cute Li'l UFO
    Join Date
    23-Feb-2009
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    26
    The possibility of byte 01 being a bit toggle crossed my mind, too, but what the heck could the bits be toggling that would give roughly similar results at both 00 (nothing set) and FF (everything set)?

    It's certainly possible that it represents the variable in a referenced formula, but again, why would 00 and FF give the same results?

    The only explanation I've come up with for that is if setting, say, bit 80 means "subtract 256 from the value so it becomes negative." Then FF would = -1, 00 would = 0, and 01 would = 1, which would explain why they'd produce indistinguishable results--on a scale of 256 possibilities, they're only separated by 2 points at most. Trouble is, I REALLY don't think the abilities with higher values in byte 01 are LESS accurate--just the opposite.

    I guess one final possibility would be if FF is an aberration meaning "ignore this entry and default to 00." Guess I should try to muster the willpower to test FE... Then again, the expectation would be that FE = massive accuracy bonus, so the expected result would be "no misses". It wasn't FF = no misses that was weird, it was that 00, 01, and 14 all = no misses.


    Anyway...

    In the ability_dump: regarding byte 06:
    "80 = ground type (why is cross shot here?)"

    It isn't. For some reason, CrossShot and StunShot appear to have all their values swapped with each other (see their byte 11 WP costs to make this obvious). Unlike CrossShot, StunShot IS ground-based, because it represents shooting the ground at the enemies' feet to shake them up a little. I guess it's not as scary if you can fly, even though the implied threat--"next time I'll shoot YOU"--should be.

  29. #29
    Registered User
    Join Date
    18-Feb-2009
    Posts
    172
    [i posted this in the item data thread a few minutes ago. it belongs here.]

    now for the news... MASSIVE updates to ability data. i did some data compiling on a few of the bytes, specifically the ability formula byte and a few of the bit toggles.

    GOOD NEWS:
    when i was looking at the ability formulas i realized i never actually compared the order the abilities are listed on my data to the order they're listed in the game... it was wrong. lifewave showed 0 JP cost because it wasn't lifewave, it was ironpole. there were a few other screwups like that in there, but i corrected them.

    BAD NEWS:
    because i didn't catch those mistakes until after i finished my research on the bit toggles and formulas, there are a few mistakes in them.

    it won't be that bad, just ignore reviva, sacrifice, lifewave, awakening, ironpole, crossshot, and stunshot when looking at my research

    DON'T PANIC:
    the actual DATA data, the big fucking square thing made up of numbers and hexes, is fine. if anything, it's better than before. it's just the key, the legend, that's a little fucked up. which can be easily corrected.

    IN SHORT:
    you can continue to use the ability data. just watch out for the abilities i listed above, when looking at the new information i compiled.

    and i changed the links for all the crap. look at the first post in this thread, item data thread, and other data thread to find them.

  30. #30
    Cute Li'l UFO Eroneous's Avatar
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    28-Oct-2008
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    out in yon hills
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    Impressive. Will further analysisize at a later moment of greater being more opportunish.

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